she's a brat

E

emmasmommy

New member
what do i do? i need help.

madelyn's 4. i know 4 sucks. i remember emma was a bit of a challenge at 4 as well. the problem i'm having is, this child is too smart for her own good. she knows how to work people and she'll throw anyone under the bus to get herself out of trouble. i babysit and the 2 girls i have all the time are 5 and 3, so everyone here is close in age. the problem i've been running into is, most of the time, madelyn is fine, there are the typical girl dramz, but she usually won't fight and get violent. usually. here lately, the temper and the physical altercations with this one have really flared up.

for example, this morning, little girl 2 was looking at a book of madelyn's. madelyn decided she wanted the book and snatched it from girl 2 and proceeded to punch her. about a week ago, girl 2 went to get in the car before madelyn and madelyn kicked her, HARD, when she got in the car because she didn't let her in first.

now, i realize kids will be kids and they're going to fight and be mean, my problem with her is she shows no remorse. she'll say she's sorry, but whatever punishment i give her, it just doesn't bother her. the only thing that bothers her is when she thinks i 'dont love her' anymore. i would never, ever, dream of throwing that in her face, but, what can i do? i have told her time and time again, i will always love her, but i don't necessarily like her actions. she needs to be nice and treat people the way she would want to be treated.

i don't mean to paint her as a bully or a mean kid, she's really not, but these outbursts are becoming more and more frequent and i'd rather nip them in the bud now then when they really become a problem.

any words of advice?
 
I have no advice. :(

Colton is 8 and is just like that. I've tried everything. Redirection, punishment, extra love. I'm hoping it's a phase and he'll grow out of it. He's the baby and I fear that we all treated him like that for too long. Not that I ever let him get away with stuff, you know, but we babied him for sure.
 
Nikki Epperson said:
He's the baby and I fear that we all treated him like that for too long. Not that I ever let him get away with stuff, you know, but we babied him for sure.
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that's madelyn...for sure. she has a very powerful personality and it's let her win all of us over...this may be our problem.
 
emmasmommy said:
that's madelyn...for sure. she has a very powerful personality and it's let her win all of us over...this may be our problem.
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We have the same issue with our 4 year old. We slacked in the disciplining department and it showed. I guess I figured since he was our last I wanted to baby him as much as possible. Now looking back on it I shouldn't have done that!

Nathan was punished way more often than Anthony has ever been. Thankfully though, Anthony is catching on to being punished and it has gotten a bit better. We have stuck with our disciplining him and it is starting to show.

Are you taking things away like toys, loveys? I know that has been a huge factor in things working for us.
 
I hate 4. We have had so much fun with Blake lately. (note sarcasm) I don't really have any advice but it's nice to know that we arent the only parents going thru it! Good luck!
 
"punishment" doesn't work for lucas.. threats etc do nothing. if anything they make things worse x10

The thing that works best for him is positive praise (noticing the good and being extra vocal about it - "oh you are being such a good boy today!" and working towards a reward. He does really good with a reward chart but I have a hard time following through and being consistent. If M likes stuff like stickers etc you could work towards if she is able to be nice to her friends then she could get a sticker that day etc. I started doing this for his craft n' splash and it really helped - but again all depends on the kid. If m is going to care less about some stickers well then its not going to do much good ;) LOL

Then it also comes into play that I don't think rewarding them for being good is something that should be a habit so I have a hard time doing it cause of that also.. lol. but for certain things it has been working well so I do it depending on the situation..
 
Yikes! That's really hard. Parenting is no easy gig. I have one that doesn't really get bothered too much by being in trouble and we have to get creative, she definitely tries your patience.

The physical stuff would be a problem for me, I don't tolerate hitting and kicking etc. It's bad enough between siblings but if another kid hit or kicked my kid, I'd be pissed! Are there certain conditions that prompt her to act out more harshly, is she overly tired, or is there a lot going on then? You know some kids just revel in the attention they get, the drama, even if it's negative. I'd be aware of that, make sure she's not inadvertently being rewarded for acting bratty. Does she know other ways to express her anger and frustration, for some kids that needs to be taught too. Positive reinforcement can really work wonders for a lot of kids.

I know being consistent is key to whatever road you take. I wish you luck, wish I had a magic wand of parenting magic for you.
 
Have you tried telling her that no one will want to be her friend if she punches or kicks them?

The other thing I've found affective it when I tell my son that I am too angry to even look at him and he should not be near me while I'm angry. He hates to be told that.
 
oh keely brings up a good point. My 7 year old loves attention even if it's negative. So we have stopped giving her the negative attention. I just send her to her room with no fanfare or anything and that irritates her.
 
What would M say if you said you would tell the other parents that she kicked their child? I would not want to have to do that, but maybe a reprimand from someone other than you would work? Maybe make it be about the other child instead of her bad behavior. And definitely celebrate what is so special and magical about her!

I have a niece who is a master-manipulator. She is almost 19 and still a big problem (thankfully not with stuff like drugs or drinking, but she simply won't do anything she doesn't want to do and has almost flunked out of college). She was babied by not only my sister and her DH, but also my other sister, my parents, and her 2 older girl cousins - she was the baby of the family where they all lived. She knows how to work it and no one has stopped her. Now they have no idea what to do with her. So yeah, it's good you are wanting to change things when M is 4.
 
ugh... don't miss that stage! I had issues with J not listening to me and everything that worked in the past just wasn't working now... so I resorted to guilt. ;) Since kiddo cares what I think... I told him how sad he was making me when he was being naughty... he didn't like that one bit. :)
 
DS is almost 3 and he's starting to get that way. He's a big toy stealer so my whole day is trying to get him to share. He sasses back when he's in trouble and has even started hitting us. What's been workin is to tell him how sad I am, and I don't just let a kiss make it better like I used to. I make him rectify the situation before a hug and kiss make it better. Being sad vs. mad like I am prone to has made a big difference. When I'm mad it's a battle of wills, but when I'm sad his compassion takes over, and he remembers what made me so sad.

It should work with a 4 year old too. I learned the trick from a woman whom I aspire to mother like. She lets kids know how it is, and they really respond, even if it's their first time with her.
 
This age stinks. When E was being mean like this I'd talk to her about being mean and no one will like her for her actions, I'd then send her to her room saying that if she could not get along and be nice to people, I don't want her around because that is not how we behave. She could not come down until we said she could. It would be a good hour or more (I think at this age, 5, 10 minutes is NOTHING for these girls).

This also gets E when she is acting out. I give her a choice - A or B. She'll respond with a sassy "nothing." I say - "That was not a choice I gave you. This acting out is unacceptable" and I walk away. I don't look at her, I don't respond - I show her nothing. Surprising what 10 minutes of being ignored will do to her attitude.

She may be jealous of these 2 girls taking your attention away from her. You have to get to her to let her know that you still love her, but others' need you as well.
 
Does she do this with other children as well or only with the two children you do daycare for?
Maybe she's going through a jealousy phase.... my mommy, my house, my car, my toys... get your paws off and go home to your OWN mommy, house, car and toys... I did childcare for over 6 year, for 7 children, one of my own children was really jealous for a short time. It took a lot of patience and understanding, and lotssssss of talking to my kiddo to explain why the other children were there.... that they were not there to 'take over' mommy or house or toys... that they love THEIR mommy house and toys and they wouldn't dream of wanting to live here forever... only for 8 hours a day, lol :-)
 
I'm right there with ya with Ella. Avery has never been a hitter and not much of a temper tantrum thrower (lol) but along comes Miss Firecracker and it's a whole new story. She hits and kicks Avery when she's mad at him...4 time outs yesterday and where Avery always just goes to time and and takes his punishment it is not working with Ella. It turns into an hour long battle of wills between us and honestly I'm worn out.

And with Brian gone I can't use the old "wait til you Daddy gets home" line.

And they fight All. Day. Long. By the time they go to bed at night I'm totally exhausted.
 
MamaBee said:
ugh... don't miss that stage! I had issues with J not listening to me and everything that worked in the past just wasn't working now... so I resorted to guilt. ;) Since kiddo cares what I think... I told him how sad he was making me when he was being naughty... he didn't like that one bit. :)
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My friend got so desperate with her 5year old recently who was acting out, and so she resorted to 'crying' (fake of course) and all it took was one day of 'crying' everytime her kid acted out - her daughter felt so awful by the end of the day and is a little angel ever since...

I'm not so sure I'd recommend it, but heck, us moms get desperate and it worked for her and noone died in the process, sooooooo what the heck... :D
 
I dont really have any advice but just wanted to say I can sympathise. I have a whole other set of issues with my 14 year old and it is driving me completely crazy. He is so lazy and just does not want to help with anything in the house because "he goes to school all day". OK and?? LOL Needless to say the things he wants to do this summer and the things we have planned will not happen if his attitude and actions do not change. :(
 
Hummm...tough stuff.

My Connor was always the physical one and it was tough to break him him of it...
One of the things that helped us tremendously was setting family rules...when he would strike out aggressively I would sternly look at him and say "We do not put hands on anyone-that is a rule of this family"...also the consequences...usually taking things away or solitary time out were swift and consistent. We NEVER allowed the consequences to be "saved for later" (and then forgotten), they were dealt then and there.
Another big concern I would have is the fact that this little girl is a source of income for your family. If Landen were being hit and kicked on a consistent basis by a care givers daughter/son, I would be angry and honestly look for other options. I'm sure M is too young to "grasp" the fact that the results of her behavior could effect your family as a whole-but I would try and make her on some level "get that".

Big HUGS momma...I hope this is just a phase and passes quickly.
 
Tough...I am dealing with the same exact thing with abby (6).....so far my mean, loud, punish approach hasn't faded her but her dads soft talk and explaining to her that her actions are hurtful and how would she like it if someone did that to her seem to have much more affect.....so maybe D could have a "talk" with her and see if that helps...I also found that Matt has to talk to Abby or any of the other kids face to face at their level, not raise his voice, and for there to be no other distractions for them to really think about what he is saying and grasp it...good luck...I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for more advice :)
 
This was my 6 yr old when we moved here last month. Except it was a at school thing. He is not usually the trouble maker so I was dumbfounded and upset. He's better at home with his sister. At home she's more of the trouble maker, picking on him. We tried everything, but I think it was a combo of moving across the world, changing schools and homes, being out of school for 3 weeks, and having a month before summer break. Now I try to work for fun stuff. We plan weekly outings. They have to earn them though. They have to do their chores everyday, if they do they get to go outside to play. If they don't fight too much, we go out on the weekend somewhere. This Saturday is a Movie on the Beach. My son doesn't care about being punished. We've made him write sentences, take away his toys, time outs, etc... he could care less. He does better with positiveness. Maybe switch to that?
 
I have no advice either as Isaac's doing the same thing to Asher... I'm so lost for what to do anymore :hugs:
 
thanks for all the advice and words of wisdom everyone! she definitely is more responsive to the quiet, "talk to me like and adult" approach, but like shan said, I just can't let the behavior slide since its someone else's kid. I may explain to her that if it continues I'll have to tell their mom. she's very big on seeking others approval (wonder where she gets that from lol).

she's been big into "I'm not going to be your best friend anymore," so the whole telling her that no one will want to be her friend anyway will help curb this.

I'm really kicking myself now for always giggling at the sassy little things she's done since she was little because she never thinks she's going to get in trouble. *sigh*
 
My kids are older, but what I think helps is to watch for triggers to outbursts. If you can get a good idea about what triggers an outburst, then you can redirect before it even happens. But this took time for us to learn.

I like this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Discipline-Jane-Nelsen-Ed-D/dp/0345487672/

There's a version for preschoolers:

http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Discipline-Preschoolers-Years--Raising-Responsible/dp/0307341607/

Some articles from her website:
http://store.positivediscipline.com/blog.asp

And this is a great book too (and very practical):
http://www.amazon.com/More-Meltdown...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338489924&sr=1-1

And I'm not Jewish, but I keep on thinking about buying it when I see it at the store:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Blessing-Skinned-Knee-Self-Reliant/dp/1416593063/
 
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emmasmommy said:
I'm really kicking myself now for always giggling at the sassy little things she's done since she was little because she never thinks she's going to get in trouble. *sigh*
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We've all done this! And this isn't totally what has caused the problem, I'm sure. It's partly the age and probably partly the environment with the other kids. The fact that you are recognizing it and willing to do something about it means you probably won't end up with a 19 year old brat. ;) Three year old brats are understandable, 19 year old ones are not.
 
Nicholas is 5 and punishment doesn't do much for him either. We have learned to do things like he needs to have a good day to earn something. At times it back fires, as he thinks he should get something for everything he does, but I just explain that sometimes good behavior is expected. They like to test us, don't they?
 
I agree with whoever said try to praise the good and when she does act out, just send her on her merry way w/o fanfair. Also, would it work if she would have to choose her consequence? She's acting out so you say, you have two choices. Stop {fill in whatever behavior she's showing} or go to time out/your room/the corner/whatever. Maybe giving her a "say" in what happens next will not only give her attention she wants, but a little power over the situation, too?
 
I wish I had more advice for you- Kat went through a minor phase like that about 3 months ago- which ended when another kid popped her back and she realized it hurt. Does Madelyn make that connection?
 
"punishment" doesn't work for lucas.. threats etc do nothing. if anything they make things worse x10
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This is Cole and he's only two! I have tried everything and it only makes him worse. Cole takes hard headed to a totally different level!

I would try the if you can't be nice you must need time alone in your room approach with a talk with dad. Scott can come home and Cole stops whatever bad things he is doing. With me its like I've never done anything to try to correct him because, it doesn't work.
 
Yeah, that's a frustrating age and stage, especially for strong willed children! I have a 6 year old (with probable ADHD) who hits, and most of the time nothing works. Sometimes he likes the attention even if it's negative attention, so he doesn't care if we take away screen time or toys or anything else. Even all the positive reinforcement and praise we do most of the time doesn't prevent him losing it sometimes. We send him to his room (in reality, I usually have to carry him to his room) telling him that if he can't treat other people nicely and gently, he can't be with us. I check on him after 10 minutes, and if he's calm I invite him to join us again. If not, he stays until he is calm no matter how long it takes.

emmasmommy said:
I may explain to her that if it continues I'll have to tell their mom. she's very big on seeking others approval (wonder where she gets that from lol).
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Laura--I don't know if you've actually told the other mother or not, but if you haven't you might want to. When I worked in preschools and daycares, they all had a policy to report incidents like that to the parent the same day because the kids are going to go home and tell, and some parents react badly if they don't hear it from the person in charge first. That's especially true with repeat occurrences, in my experience.
 
rach3975 said:
Laura--I don't know if you've actually told the other mother or not, but if you haven't you might want to. When I worked in preschools and daycares, they all had a policy to report incidents like that to the parent the same day because the kids are going to go home and tell, and some parents react badly if they don't hear it from the person in charge first. That's especially true with repeat occurrences, in my experience.
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thanks for pointing that out, rachel. i have told her about it. the kids are constantly fighting and bickering (word wise, not physical) so, i'm pretty straight forward with her on our 'good' and 'bad' days.
 
I just had the most hellish day with my 3.5 year old.... it just gets worse the closer we get to 4. :crying: She was never "allowed" to act out, in fact I'm pretty consistent when it comes to discipline with her. She just knows the times to act out when I am powerless... in the grocery store with a full cart, in the middle of the mall, on our way out the door, or in the car while we're driving somewhere. I swear, I can't take her anywhere. For her it's not violence or anger it's tantrums and fits, and just flat out disobedience.

I've been thinking my only real plan is to try taking away something from her. Like, behaving badly at those times might not result in an immediate punishment, but when you get home the dolls will be in "time out" for the rest of the day. Or her favorite movie. Seriously... it's the only thing I can think of.
 
I went through this stage too but it seems like such a blur on what I did since the girls are so much older. There is a lot of great advice in this thread and I hope that you find some way to deal with this effectively and in a way that you find some peace as well.
 
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