Jon and Kate +8 (*spoilers*)

I think they're both crazy, but this world is the only one those kids have ever known. While it's sorta sick, I also think of how traumatic it would be for those kids to go from a family that makes $75K per episode to one that would make $75K per year if they're lucky. No more nice house, clothes, etc AND no more mom and dad together either. I dont think stopping the show is any guarantee that those kids would live a "normal" life and their definition of "normal" could be very different than yours or mine.

When they said that the kids would live in the house full time and J&K would swap in and out - I thought that was crazy at first, but after giving it some thought, with all the travelling for "work" that they've been doing anyway, it probably isnt that much different than the way things have been for a long time and ultimately, it could really give the kids the sense of security and stability not being shuffled back and forth between two parents lives.

The whole thing is a mixed bag of emotions for me. I cant stand them, I feel for them, I dont feel for them, I feel bad for the kids, I'm hopeful for them despite the disfunction of their parents - hopefully it will all work out.

R
 
What's interesting is that the their announcement was that they were separating (Apr/May around Mother's Day) and then they put up the disclaimer about them filing for divorce the same day the episode aired. Talk about Kismet?!

Jon said he is happy he's finally standing up for himself when he said he's let Kate do what she wants and walk all over him. So I am sure for him he is happy to be making decisions for himself. It's never easy when you have kids, but their relationship seemingly isn't healthy so I applaud them for thinking of the kids in the aspect. It's got to be a tough thing to deal with and we only see what they put on TV so we don't know the whole story. I mean it's THEIR relationship and it should stay private. But I told my DH from episode 1 that the two of them weren't gonna last!
 
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alansrock said:
What's interesting is that the their announcement was that they were separating (Apr/May around Mother's Day) and then they put up the disclaimer about them filing for divorce the same day the episode aired. Talk about Kismet?!
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No. Filings like that are public record, so I'm sure TLC didn't allow them to file until the episode aired, they didn't want their big episode blown by the divorce being reported prior to that date.
 
i think divorce is complete and utter bullshit. *unless physical harm is being inflicted on any level. including drug use and mental abuse, etc.

i will not buy for one second that those children will be happier with their parents apart vs. in a house where there is much bickering. as adults, parents need to pull their shit together and put on a happy face ESPECIALLY when you have chosen to bring 8 children into this world TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!

being excited to move on because your wife is a bitch?!?!?! are you kidding me?! if that was the case most of us wouldn't have a spouse. pure immaturity. thinking that you are better off because you grew a pair and stood up to your bossy wife is NOT what is best for your children. again, immaturity.

divorce is wrong, imo. wrong on every level. the kids deserve every happiness and did not come into this world just to have their lives pulled apart. thems my guns and ain't no one gonna change this mind.
 
Everything isn't black & white Lizzy. Divorce sometimes really is the best thing. I'm not saying it is in this case, or that it isn't. No one knows what their life is like off camera.
 
yes, in a perfect world, I completely agree with you Lizzy, divorce is bad and awful and can harm a child. The best thing for kids is to have two happy, loving, married parents. I try hard to have that for my kids, and it's what everyone deserves to have.

However, as a child of divorce (my parents got divorced when I was 5 - same age as the little ones) I was actually much happier after the fact. The problem I had in my life was not my parents amicable divorce, but rather my mother's miserable, bitter, stress-filled remarriage. I'm so happy that I grew up with the impression that even though my parents didn't live with each other any more I knew they loved me beyond measure, whereas my memories of my mother/stepfather are all bitter and angry because their unhappy marriage overrode everything else.

I WISH that we lived in a world where all it takes is for the parents to try at marriage for it to succeed, but we live in a fallen world and it doesn't always end up that way.
 
But, I'm not saying you're wrong Lizzy, divorce is usually, angry, messy and harmful..however unhappy marriages can do the same damage.
 
I agree with Sara. Nobody should be forced into a life of absolute unhappiness because the person you married turned out to be intolerable.

That just teaches your kids to settle. You wouldn't want Mady and Kara to grow up and be verbally abusive wenches to their husbands, or worse... spineless pushovers like their dad.
 
My parents are divorced Lizzy, and it's not always as cut and dry as you make it seem. I think if the divorce is amicable, as my parents was, it is a lot less difficult than those that are dirty and messy. Sometimes it is the right thing to do. My parents were able to get along, they discussed things between them in regards to our lives, finances, etc, and because of that, they were able to remain friends on some level, for which I am eternally grateful.

I love my parents a lot, and I would never have wanted them to stay married for me or Steve (my bro), if they wouldn't have been happy that way. They deserve happiness in life, and just because they had 2 kids doesn't mean everything else shuts down. I am not just a mom, I'm also a woman, and if there came a point where my "womanly" needs were not being met, I would have to seriously reevaluate my relationship. I only have one life to lead, and I want to be happy in it. I am a good mother. But if I sat here and Tony and I were yelling 24/7 I think that's doing a disservice to the kids too. They deserve better than that, and so would I.
 
I'm glad I left my first husband! If I hadn't, I wouldn't be in the most wonderful relationship and have two darling boys! There is no way I can condone anyone having to live with that controlling beast of a woman.
 
We've watched a few episodes here and there. My 5yo daughter loved seeing old reruns of the kids when they were out & about vacationing, potty training, etc. I will NOT be watching the show any longer, however, and will not permit her to watch it anymore either. In fact, I wouldn't even let her watch any shows this season. There's been too much animosity and tension between J&K, and I just couldn't expose her to that.

My DH and I did watch the show last night, and I was just so disgusted by the whole thing. John seems so apathetic and uncaring about the situation - oh, and excited. Lest we forget his excitement. :mad:

DH (who never watches the show) chimed in with his 2cents last night, and thinks that Jon sounds like a guy who's having a midlife crisis and is most likely cheating on his wife.

You know, I would be so much more supportive if they TRIED to work on their marriage and went to counseling. I would imagine there'd be a long line of therapists that would love to have offered their services. As it is, they cite 7-8 months of difficulty with the last 4 being really bad. Really?? It would seem that they could get separate bedrooms in their big ol' house - or John could build himself a crooked house in the woods and they could go through some intense counseling. The whole thing is just terrible....especially for the kids.
 
My parents are divorced and I know I grew up much better with them divorced then I would have had they stayed married.
 
ccouch said:
DH (who never watches the show) chimed in with his 2cents last night, and thinks that Jon sounds like a guy who's having a midlife crisis and is most likely cheating on his wife.
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There's no doubt he's cheating/cheated...

http://www.usmagazine.com/photos/see-all-of-jon-gosselin-and-deanna-hummels-affair-photos

Check out the last 2-3 photos of this slideshow - I would be LIVID to see my husband's "fling" laying out in my front yard while I was traveling. That's crazy!
 
ya know, after I posted that reply, I did a quick search online. (note to self: do not spend any more time googling reality tv stars. go scrap a LO or something!)

anyhoo - YIKES!! I saw those bikini pics too. The tag said that it was at the Gosselin residence. So, um, where were all the kids while she was sunbathing at J&K's house? I read she was a school teacher. Maybe Cara & Mady will have her in homeroom. Lovely.
 
While I advocate very strongly for maintaining a marriage and WORKING hard to keep it together, there are a few things I would not expect someone to just set aside.... physical, emotional, sexual, or substance abuse AND infidelity. Kate is rude and mean, but that does not excuse Jon's actions in any way. If your wife is mean, you try and work it out... you don't just run off and commit adultery. I would not expect a mother to stay in a relationship with a man who is screwing someone else. I wouldn't even want to look at my husband if he'd done something like that. That's unfair to expect someone to stay in a relationship like that. It was pretty obvious in the way they were speaking that Jon had cheated, but they never flat-out said it.
 
mturnidge said:
While I advocate very strongly for maintaining a marriage and WORKING hard to keep it together, there are a few things I would not expect someone to just set aside.... physical, emotional, sexual, or substance abuse AND infidelity. Kate is rude and mean, but that does not excuse Jon's actions in any way. If your wife is mean, you try and work it out... you don't just run off and commit adultery. I would not expect a mother to stay in a relationship with a man who is screwing someone else. I wouldn't even want to look at my husband if he'd done something like that. That's unfair to expect someone to stay in a relationship like that. It was pretty obvious in the way they were speaking that Jon had cheated, but they never flat-out said it.
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I agree with everything, but especially the bolded parts.
 
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i agree with what you said too traci about it being a fallen world and it is so sad. i get so upset when people who obviously love one another let circumstances ruin the lives of their children and themselves. it breaks my heart.

jami- just so you know and everyone else knows, i've been around the block. i KNOW it's not cut and dry. the fact still remains however that adults can be VERY selfish and when you bring little lives into the picture you need to try a hell of a long time before giving everything up. my stance on this will not sway no matter what anyone says. my parents have been seperated and almost divorced too many friggin times to count. do you know what that taught me? not that people shouldn't fight but that in the end if you love someone or ever did love someone for the sake of your gorgeous children- you CAN work it out. they are now married 28 years and happier than ever. dennis and i almost got a divorce as well and i'm not talking one fight, we threatened one another. we were on our way to see a divorce lawyer when it hit us both that those three children we had made deserved more happiness than we ever did and for those reasons we sought out help and we are happier than ever. i hate to judge all of those whom are divorced or whom are going through it cause i know its a painful time. i just really wish more adults would really put their kids happiness first and then move from there. in many cases divorce is best- i get that. but not when 50% of marriages are failing. that's not normal. too many people are living in a self gratifying world and not seeing that their children come first.

wow. thats long.
 
well... here's the other thing.. we don't KNOW what has really gone on in their lives. Who knows.. maybe more happened. I do know, for me, for connor, it's better this way- you've told me as such yourself ^_^ .. You can't really lump all peolpe who are going through a divorce into one category (obviously you know this).. I do agree, that it is sad that divorce rates are SO high.. but you also have to look at other things too.. too many people get married for the wrong reasons, too many people rush into marriage etc etc.. Those situations on top of situations like mine, sometimes there is really just no fixing it.I think it's wonderful that some people can work out their marriages-- but those situations, are different.. the two people love each other deep inside and are willing. A hate filled marriage is not good for any child.. and no amount of therapy will MAKE you love someone or MAKE you happy in a situation (or make the abuse go away, or on and on and on) That is all on the individual person. That base.. that love has to already be there..
 
In my case, my parents were married because she was 19 years old and pregnant. Maybe they would have gotten married eventually if she hadn't, but I honestly don't think they would have. They were just 2 very different people who DID try to do right by us, by doing the "right thing", only to have it deteriorate in the end anyway.
 
lizzyfizzy said:
i think divorce is complete and utter bullshit. *unless physical harm is being inflicted on any level. including drug use and mental abuse, etc.
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I disagree. It would not have been better for me or my children to remain in a loveless marriage with a man who thought sleeping with my friends was completely reasonable.

We're ALL happier now. Even the kids.

And to answer previous posts - not all divorces are bitter and petty. My ex and I get along fine now, and he gets along fine with my current husband. We're both over each other so there's really nothing to fight about. I don't get jealous of his girlfriends, and he doesn't care that I'm remarried. We co-parent, we sit next to each other at soccer games, and we raise the kids effectively as a 3 person team.

None of this has anything to do with Jon and Kate, and I'll leave my opinions about them out of this post. I just wanted to defend the divorced girls. I'd much rather my kids grow up in 2 happy homes than one miserable one.

ETA: I stayed with him for 11 years. It's not like I didn't try. ;)
 
lizzyfizzy said:
i agree with what you said too traci about it being a fallen world and it is so sad. i get so upset when people who obviously love one another let circumstances ruin the lives of their children and themselves. it breaks my heart.

jami- just so you know and everyone else knows, i've been around the block. i KNOW it's not cut and dry. the fact still remains however that adults can be VERY selfish and when you bring little lives into the picture you need to try a hell of a long time before giving everything up. my stance on this will not sway no matter what anyone says. my parents have been seperated and almost divorced too many friggin times to count. do you know what that taught me? not that people shouldn't fight but that in the end if you love someone or ever did love someone for the sake of your gorgeous children- you CAN work it out. they are now married 28 years and happier than ever. dennis and i almost got a divorce as well and i'm not talking one fight, we threatened one another. we were on our way to see a divorce lawyer when it hit us both that those three children we had made deserved more happiness than we ever did and for those reasons we sought out help and we are happier than ever. i hate to judge all of those whom are divorced or whom are going through it cause i know its a painful time. i just really wish more adults would really put their kids happiness first and then move from there. in many cases divorce is best- i get that. but not when 50% of marriages are failing. that's not normal. too many people are living in a self gratifying world and not seeing that their children come first.

wow. thats long.
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I love that you saved my fingers from all the typing, because you know I totally agree with you. :wub:
 
i love you jenny.

just a reminder: i am a girl who got married to a boy she hardly knew at 17. pregnant at 16. if i can survive this marriage i believe that a hell of a lot of people who get divorced can save theirs. like i said, i do understand there are different circumstances but more often than not divorce is not necessary. i will be an advocate for happy families. we can put it that way. in the end if you believe divorce made your family happier, my hat's off to you.
 
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lizzyfizzy said:
i love you jenny.

just a reminder: i am a girl who got married to a boy she hardly knew at 17. pregnant at 16. if i can survive this marriage i believe that a hell of a lot of people who get divorced can save theirs. like i said, i do understand there are different circumstances but more often than not divorce is not necessary. i will be an advocate for happy families. we can put it that way. in the end if you believe divorce made your family happier, my hat's off to you.
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I do agree with you too Lizzy. I agreed with Megan as well, but I do see your over-all point (which I don't think is that divorce is unacceptable under ALL circumstances because you said there are some situations that merit it). And I totally agree that too many people divorce too easily. I mean, look at the divorce rate. 50 years ago it was super low. People stuck it out. Now it's almost as if people get married for the fun of it, going into it with the attitude, "We can always divorce if we get bored". And thats a sad thing to see.

For me, I am against divorce too. I'm not against seperation if the situation needs it (emotional, physical, mental abuses etc), and would only divorce if my husband were to cheat on me. I would definitely give it my all to save my marraige if it were at all possible!!
 
I agree Jaedyn. :)

I think it's sad that neither one seems to be willing to give their all in order to save it. :( If this has been going on for 7-8 months and they haven't done anything yet....that is so sad.

TLC released a statment saying that the show was on temporary hiatus for at leat 6 weeks. we will see I guess if they do decide to do the right thing for their kids....
 
Perhaps it isn't the big D - don't mean Dallas - that we're getting after here? perhaps it's the underlying "walk away" issue?

Coming from the got abandonment issues to fill a Samsonite warehouse woman here (am workin' on that) - so Bias. Big time. Yet perhaps that is what really is the root of all of this, how easy it is to throw in the towel and walk. Especially more for some than others. With or without accountability for the blow back that their walking away may cause for others.

So maybe throw out the big D - and we all agree? it's the walk away that causes the hurt, the giving up, giving up on of what could have been or should have been or might have been, whenever the initial walk happened.
 
NettieB said:
Perhaps it isn't the big D - don't mean Dallas - that we're getting after here? perhaps it's the underlying "walk away" issue?
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yes, this is what it is for me. i guess i didn't think to say that. i read a book called the walk out woman. it's so sad that things so often come to giving up and just walking away.
 
If it is a publicity stunt, all I can say is that it's a pretty sad one given the fact that all of this is chronicled on video for their children to view down the road.
 
NettieB said:
Perhaps it isn't the big D - don't mean Dallas - that we're getting after here? perhaps it's the underlying "walk away" issue?

Coming from the got abandonment issues to fill a Samsonite warehouse woman here (am workin' on that) - so Bias. Big time. Yet perhaps that is what really is the root of all of this, how easy it is to throw in the towel and walk. Especially more for some than others. With or without accountability for the blow back that their walking away may cause for others.

So maybe throw out the big D - and we all agree? it's the walk away that causes the hurt, the giving up, giving up on of what could have been or should have been or might have been, whenever the initial walk happened.
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Nettie for the win!! :D Yes, thats exactly what I was trying to say in all my ramblings. I'm against the giving up without a fight part of divorce. I'm sick of people just walking out on their families because they don't care enough to fight for the happiness of their children. If Jeff and I had divorced, it would have meant a more peaceful home for our children. BUT... we worked so hard for a year and a half in counselling and now, not only do we have a peaceful home for our kids, but our marriage is still intact! I would never say that a couple should remain together miserable and angry and hateful. Thats NEVER good for kids to see. But go get help! Go work on it! I can *almost* guarantee that things will get better if both people are committed to making it work!
 
Lilcameronsmommy said:
But go get help! Go work on it! I can *almost* guarantee that things will get better if both people are committed to making it work!
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But do we know that they didn't go get help? They very well may have, but feel no need to share that with the public. I can understand that.

I recently divorced and in no way, shape or form do my ex-husband and I feel that if only we were committed it could have worked out. We worked at it for years, and it just didn't work out. Legally, it was easy for us to divorce, but getting to the point of making that decision was anything but. Most people with children don't take these things lightly.
 
rochelle789 said:
But do we know that they didn't go get help? They very well may have, but feel no need to share that with the public. I can understand that.
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That's not "their" style - KWIM? They share EVERYTHING with the public - why not that? Why not that they were in couseling?

Just how much they are in the public eye & all the stuff that has been unfolding, I feel that in my gut that trying and counseling didn't happen. I am sure it would have been dug up or brought up by now if they did. But it hasn't.

I see it as just giving up and I think that this is happening way too often now. I'm lucky - I'm in a marriage that is good, but when I see the staggering, gut wrentching statistics on how many marriages actually last, it breaks my heart.

I have seen bits and pieces of the show and disliked it. Not even this will get me to watch. I can't stand either one of them & think that at this point, the show should stop. I can't watch something like this with believing what I do about marriage and family.
 
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