Interesting.... (politics AGAIN, sorry)

All this talk about taxes just makes my head hurt...you're going to find somebody with some opinion and an article to support each candiates plans...one day I see one saying obama's is best..one day McCain...the problem is most of us average joes who don't understand all the fine print on these plans can only depend on what we hear/read. And honestly right now...from both sides it's just political blah blah blah to win the white house. Will we actually see what they promise? Maybe..maybe not...all I know is this "spread the wealth" idea of obama's scares the crapola out of me.
 
Just for the record, there's quite a few democratic propaganda machines out there too.....the huge majority of the media. I don't think any of the major news outlets are unbiased. Not a single one. I'm seriously disgusted by it all and I'll be glad when Nov 4th has come and gone.

Certainly, there is no unbiased big media, this is why we should be doing non-big media research. To take any channel's word on it is wrong.
 
And here's my other issue...these are just the tax plans that are currently on the table. The ones that look good for the election. We all know that these change the moment they get into office. So I don't think that stressing over these graphs is going to help anything. I think the important thing is to look at voting histories on tax issues...I think that will give a better indication of where we are headed than their beautiful plans that are pretty much guaranteed not to come to fruition.

lol we were posting at the same time...i totally agree :)
 
So did it bug anybody in the VP debate when Biden said that having the rich pay more taxes was PATRIOTIC? I'm so glad that he decides in what manner people are to show their patriotism.

Yes, that was wrong. Definitely. I was MORE annoyed by the repeated use of the words "mavericks" and "energy producing state" and the obvious skirting of the question with "Well I may not respond to the question the way you or the moderator would like me to..."

In truth it was all a bunch of drivel from both sides. :unsure:
 
I am not going to state my opinions because my mind is made up and I seriously doubt anything will change it. I just wanted to pop in and say THANK YOU! Thank you for keeping the discussions civil, fun and nice. I just went to another digi site (you know which one) and am very surprised by the meanness of some posters. These are women that I once respected but now my feelings have changed.

Everyone is entitled to their own OPINION and should not be made to feel less of a person for that opinion. Nor should they be talked down to or made fun of for having a different opinion.

:thumbup: And even if you didn't agree with Traci, how could you get mad at her with those cute pouty lips staring at you? LOL
 
I was MORE annoyed by the repeated use of the words "mavericks" and "energy producing state" and the obvious skirting of the question with "Well I may not respond to the question the way you or the moderator would like me to..."

Yeah, Palin shot herself in the foot with that one. Just answer the stupid question!!!
 
LMAO...mission accomplished!

No one has to agree with me..most of you won't ;) I'm cool with that! I'm just feeling particularly passionate today :)
 
Oh no way..most media we're not allowed to use, but we were allowed to use the WSJ until it was bought :) Most professors require unbiased media, especially for political topics..which is hard to find nowadays :unsure:

I got SOO jaded a few years ago when I worked for a company that was publicly going through a bad time. The crap that was allowed to be printed and were just outright lies really amazed me. I guess I'd lived a sheltered naive life till then! I'm with you now, I try to avoid them all!
 
People. Get your stones and aim. :wub:
Obama's "economic" plan (and a lot of what his campaign stands for) for the most part is nothing but socialism. It's redistribution of wealth and it is unfair and unjust. If you're not familiar with it I would say just read up on what socialism is. Then go check out socialist countries that have all these "free goodies" like Obama promises- nationalized health care, etc... check out those places. See what their health care plans are like and how long they have to wait for treatment. See how high their unemployment levels are. Just look into it and see if that is what you want for this country, because mark my words and I'll bet you ever dime of my scrapping budget for a year that when Obama gets into office that's exactly what you'll get. The bail out was the first step.
I'm not thrilled with each point of McCain's policy but at least it makes sense and it doesn't thrive on a socialist structure. You don't raise taxes and spend more money when your country is in economic trouble. You stop pandering to the folks asking what you're gonna give them. You stand up and say as JFK did, ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for you country. Enough is enough. We are broke people!
Just wanted to add my ever unpopular opinion. There's always gotta be a rotten apple around somewhere, might as well be me :D
 
"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin." - Linus

:D
 
While I agree on some of your points Amy and do not believe that either plan is perfect (or even good), I want you to be aware that the free healthcare is only for children...

Obama wants to build on the existing system of employer-sponsored health care by creating and expanding government-sponsored insurance programs until everyone who wants coverage has it. He would mandate that all children be covered and that all large businesses provide coverage or pay toward public insurance plans.
 
Well, my work site blocks DST, so I don't have to worry about that mire, but I am enjoying the info and discussion here. I agree that every news station has a bias, BUT I've been enjoying CNN's little "fact check" segments where they have the facts of certain statements made by either party checked by outside non-biased groups and determined true or false (and if false, what the truth is). That's the only time I really listen to them. Otherwise it's blah blah blah for whatever candidate.
My only criticism of any tax plan when it comes to the wealthy, they usually find so many loopholes because they can afford accountants, planners and lawyers to figure out ways to avoid them as much as possible. I think what we really need are some cleaning up of the tax rules/laws so that there are fewer loopholes and tax "havens".
On a side note, the company I work for (a very large multinational company) has a Political Action Committee, which until recently I thought had a bias (more Republican), but this weekend they sent out a note with links to find out about the other candidates/parties running (like the Green, Constitution or Libertarian Parties) so as not to appear biased.
 
People. Get your stones and aim.
Obama's "economic" plan (and a lot of what his campaign stands for) for the most part is nothing but socialism. It's redistribution of wealth and it is unfair and unjust. If you're not familiar with it I would say just read up on what socialism is. Then go check out socialist countries that have all these "free goodies" like Obama promises- nationalized health care, etc... check out those places. See what their health care plans are like and how long they have to wait for treatment. See how high their unemployment levels are. Just look into it and see if that is what you want for this country, because mark my words and I'll bet you ever dime of my scrapping budget for a year that when Obama gets into office that's exactly what you'll get. The bail out was the first step.
I'm not thrilled with each point of McCain's policy but at least it makes sense and it doesn't thrive on a socialist structure. You don't raise taxes and spend more money when your country is in economic trouble. You stop pandering to the folks asking what you're gonna give them. You stand up and say as JFK did, ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for you country. Enough is enough. We are broke people!
Just wanted to add my ever unpopular opinion. There's always gotta be a rotten apple around somewhere, might as well be me

No rotten apples from me..I totally agree with you...as I said his "spread the wealth" scares the crap out of me.
 
oh here's the McCain side I left out..my bad

McCain, by contrast, would upend the current employer-based system and stimulate the free market to create more affordable coverage for everyone. He would do that with a new tax credit of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to be applied to the cost of a health insurance policy. The 177 million people now covered by employer-sponsored health care would see those benefits taxed as income.
 
I think it's entirely plausible to have a fair political or religious discussion without bashing, as evidenced by today's post. :)

I don't agree with everyone and I most certainly am not agreed with by most people but I have respect for everyone. Everyone's made their own political and religious views based on their own lives and it would be unfair of anyone to attack those views.

The only people I can't stand are a) the ones who attack the other side and b) the ones that make their opinions based on nothing but the way the media has influenced them. I just ask that people do their own research and make up their own minds..don't let Fox or MSNBC decide for you :)
 
I'm not saying that Obama's socialist (I'm not saying he isn't, either)...

But anyone interested in the potential outcomes of socialism needs to read "Road to Serfdom" by Hayek. It's classic political/economic reading and worth the effort if you're really interested and concerned.
 
Aren't we seeing the outcome of a capitalistic country? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the government is a runaway train, elections are a joke, it's impossible to change anything in this country because the party system just sits there vetoing everything, etc etc...No political system is good, IMO LOL

I think I'm gonna go live out in the woods far far away
 
Hayek illustrates how socialism leads to National Socialism (i.e. nazis) and the complete loss of freedom for everyone.

The problem with our "capitalist" society is that it's socialism parading as the free market. At least according to Milton Friedman. I'm not as far out as he is, but I'll quote myself when I win a Nobel Prize...not that that seems to mean much anymore.
 
Ok I'm off to school to get some edumacation so that maybe one day I'll be complaining about tax hikes for the top 1% too! woot! lmao
 
People. Get your stones and aim. :wub:
Obama's "economic" plan (and a lot of what his campaign stands for) for the most part is nothing but socialism. It's redistribution of wealth and it is unfair and unjust. If you're not familiar with it I would say just read up on what socialism is. Then go check out socialist countries that have all these "free goodies" like Obama promises- nationalized health care, etc... check out those places. See what their health care plans are like and how long they have to wait for treatment. See how high their unemployment levels are. Just look into it and see if that is what you want for this country, because mark my words and I'll bet you ever dime of my scrapping budget for a year that when Obama gets into office that's exactly what you'll get. The bail out was the first step.
I'm not thrilled with each point of McCain's policy but at least it makes sense and it doesn't thrive on a socialist structure. You don't raise taxes and spend more money when your country is in economic trouble. You stop pandering to the folks asking what you're gonna give them. You stand up and say as JFK did, ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for you country. Enough is enough. We are broke people!
Just wanted to add my ever unpopular opinion. There's always gotta be a rotten apple around somewhere, might as well be me :D

ummm. one word. amen.

i suppose i am as rotten as they come then cause i am a 20 something hispanic conservative female living in one of the most liberal states..LOL!
 
Aren't we seeing the outcome of a capitalistic country? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the government is a runaway train, elections are a joke, it's impossible to change anything in this country because the party system just sits there vetoing everything, etc etc...No political system is good, IMO LOL

I think I'm gonna go live out in the woods far far away

Right now we are seeing a little peek of what happens with socialism and big government. We are seeing what happens when government sticks its nose in the free market where it doesn't belong. Possibly with good intentions (the community reinvestment act in the 70's, etc) the govt. has attempted to be egalitarian and legislate what they see as economic justice and fairness, which has brought us to this point. I think it was pretty stupid to force banks to loan to people who couldn't pay the money back just because of the color of their skin and/or where they live. All in the name of fairness we have ruined many institutions in this country because we are so afraid of failing to be politically correct. I think it is deplorable that a person would judge another based on their skin or nationality but I also know that the government has no place telling businesses, private sector, and free markets that they should be the agents of tolerance, change, or whatever the new buzzwards are. Business should be business and we already have laws on the books to fight discrimination. We are seeing what happens when government plays Robinhood and sticks its big nasty hands in the cookie jar assuming that they know what to do with our hard earned money and we don't. Capitalism is not perfect but when you compare it to socialism (the gateway drug to communism) people come out so much better. For the most part, even the poorest of the poor in this capitalist society have it so much better than other nations around the world. Big government has proven itself time and time again to be oppressive and destructive to people, all while hiding under the guise of equality and fairness. So I guess that no I don't think this mess we're in is due to capitalism or any of those big bad rich corporations who provide those jobs we say we don't have enough of. I think it is due to lack of personal responsibility, incompetence and corruption in government, greed, entitlement mentality, and a pathetic excuse we've had for government leaders over the last almost 20 years. And probably a bunch of other stuff.

About those taxes not being raised on those making less than 250,000 a year. That's nice but what about the people who do make more? I dont' want their hard earned money redistributed to my wallet. They earned it, let them keep it and let them decide what to do with it. For a person running a business making say 300,000 a year with 5 employees what do you think will happen when their taxes are raised to around 40%? That's a bring home of approximately 180,000. Then say they pay each employee 30,000....which is 150,000, leaving them with the same amount. That person is not going to have enough profit to keep their business afloat and you've got 6 people instantly out of a job. This is what happens when you raise taxes and go down the road of wealth redistribution. All of those "wealthy" people who can "afford" the tax increase are suddenly not so wealthy and unable to create jobs for the rest of us. Granted not all of them are in those exact circumstances but I think you will find that a great many are.

My father's business that he inherited from his father is one example. No he doesn't make anywhere near the tune of 250k a year but he's already hurting with taxes. He's had many years in the negative, been broken into, swindled, never payed by some people, etc.. etc.. etc... but he's never asked the government to bail him out. He gets up every morning and tries again and I think we have lost some of that drive and spirit here in this great nation. America has the second highest business tax in the WORLD. To me it is simple. Will I go pay a few thousand for Jimmy Choo when I can get a similar looking pair at Payless for 20 bucks? Um. No. That's simplistic but it's the principle I'm trying to speak about. You want more jobs and more capital flowing in the system, be friendly to those who can create them and put their money where their mouth is. It's not perfect but it works better than the socialism option.

Yeah, it's harder to make ends meet. We are lower middle class and we've had to make some hard choices. I know a girl who's been complaining about the state not providing insurance for her child while she's driving a brand new car. Sell the darn car and get something to where you can afford the insurance on your own without leeching off the system. That's a good example of what I'm trying to say here. Our priorities are upside down in this country and it really saddens me. I think we're in for a rough ride either way and I'm not a happy camper about Nov 4th. I wish to goodness that Huckabee could have gotten in there and revamped the tax system because that's what we need more than anything right now.

Ok, love y'all disagreements and all. I have things to do and ramble too much because I am just too passionate. I'm glad this is a civil discussion. :)
 
And if you hadn't guess by now, LOL, yes if I ever finish my degree(s) when I get a little older I am planning to run for public office. Don't worry, I won't get far because I won't play the scratch my back and I'll scratch yours game. They'll hate me. :D
 
And if you hadn't guess by now, LOL, yes if I ever finish my degree(s) when I get a little older I am planning to run for public office. Don't worry, I won't get far because I won't play the scratch my back and I'll scratch yours game. They'll hate me. :D

Well you know what Amy...if I lived in NC I would totally vote for you !!! I am loving the "I won't play" that should be your motto!!! YOU GO GIRL.....
 
Wow that took a lot to wade through! Great posts though girls.

I will be soo thankful when the voting is over.

My main issues with the taxes is that raising taxes on people of higher income is basically punishing them for prospering. It is like telling your child that for every A they bring home on their report card they have to have another chore added to their list. Eventually, where is the insentive? I know thats an extreme example... but we rely on the weathy for our jobs. They either own the company or they play a key part in our workplace.

That being said I have no idea what solution tax-wise would work...
 
People. Get your stones and aim.
Obama's "economic" plan (and a lot of what his campaign stands for) for the most part is nothing but socialism. It's redistribution of wealth and it is unfair and unjust. If you're not familiar with it I would say just read up on what socialism is. Then go check out socialist countries that have all these "free goodies" like Obama promises- nationalized health care, etc... check out those places. See what their health care plans are like and how long they have to wait for treatment. See how high their unemployment levels are. Just look into it and see if that is what you want for this country, because mark my words and I'll bet you ever dime of my scrapping budget for a year that when Obama gets into office that's exactly what you'll get. The bail out was the first step.
I'm not thrilled with each point of McCain's policy but at least it makes sense and it doesn't thrive on a socialist structure. You don't raise taxes and spend more money when your country is in economic trouble. You stop pandering to the folks asking what you're gonna give them. You stand up and say as JFK did, ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for you country. Enough is enough. We are broke people!
Just wanted to add my ever unpopular opinion. There's always gotta be a rotten apple around somewhere, might as well be me

AHHHH! I guess I will have to be a rotten apple with you since I totally agree with ya here!!
 
People. Get your stones and aim. :wub:
Obama's "economic" plan (and a lot of what his campaign stands for) for the most part is nothing but socialism. It's redistribution of wealth and it is unfair and unjust. If you're not familiar with it I would say just read up on what socialism is. Then go check out socialist countries that have all these "free goodies" like Obama promises- nationalized health care, etc... check out those places. See what their health care plans are like and how long they have to wait for treatment. See how high their unemployment levels are. Just look into it and see if that is what you want for this country, because mark my words and I'll bet you ever dime of my scrapping budget for a year that when Obama gets into office that's exactly what you'll get. The bail out was the first step.
I'm not thrilled with each point of McCain's policy but at least it makes sense and it doesn't thrive on a socialist structure. You don't raise taxes and spend more money when your country is in economic trouble. You stop pandering to the folks asking what you're gonna give them. You stand up and say as JFK did, ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for you country. Enough is enough. We are broke people!
Just wanted to add my ever unpopular opinion. There's always gotta be a rotten apple around somewhere, might as well be me :D

Denmark, socialist country, lots of free goodies, sorry, no long waits and unemployment at an all time low....just saying.....don't paint with such a broad brush.....
 
Denmark, socialist country, lots of free goodies, sorry, no long waits and unemployment at an all time low....just saying.....don't paint with such a broad brush.....

Word. From what I remember about the Universal Healthcare discussion we had a few weeks back, Cananda's system is pretty darn good.
 
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